Francois McKinnon: Welcome to the Miami PI Chronicles podcast. I am your host Francois McKinnon from the McKinnon Investigative Team.
Oscar Santamaria: And I am Oscar Santamaria of Optimum Investigations.
Francois McKinnon: We created this podcast with the goal to educate, inform and entertain aspiring beginner and seasoned professionals in the investigative field. With over 60 years of combined experience, we offer invaluable insights and lessons learned. While we may not have all the answers, our knowledge can certainly benefit anyone interested in this dynamic profession. So sit back, listen and enjoy these episodes. Please do not forget to like, share and follow.
Oscar Santamaria: Episode 16, Francois, how have you been?
Francois McKinnon: I have been good. Things have been okay over here. We were able to get through this storm that we have discussed before and things are going well here. They are getting back to normal. They are not, but more importantly, how are you? You guys are going to be dealing with a huge Category 5 hurricane. Today is October 7, 2024. So you have Hurricane Milton coming to South Florida with winds in excess of 150 miles per hour. So hopefully you are prepared and ready for it.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah. You know, it is not my first rodeo. So I think that we are pretty good down here, far Southeast where we are, but Tampa looks like it is going to get hit, St. Petersburg, Fort Myers. So they have already been hit last time around and a couple of years ago, especially Fort Myers. And right now the grounds are saturated. So it is going to be whenever that rain and the surge of water comes up, it is going to be devastating I think. Hopefully people will heed the warnings of the evacuations and just obey what the people are trying to tell you to do because they just really want to save lives.
Francois McKinnon: So true. And then you know the state of Florida is very well equipped and they know what they are doing when it comes to hurricanes. But the last hurricane, they told a lot of folks to evacuate. Let me ask you something. What do you think about that? When the government, the federal and the state tell you to evacuate, let us say you have no money right, and you are going, Oh I am going to leave my home where I can cook my meals to go somewhere where I do not know what is going on. How do you feel about that?
Oscar Santamaria: I mean, they do have shelters that people can go to just for those circumstances. So if you do not have family, you are in an evacuation zone. I do not think they are just doing it to inconvenience you.
Francois McKinnon: I mean, no, I know, but a lot of people have pets and you cannot go into shelters with your pets. So that is why they remain behind. And sometime with hurricane Helene a lot of people stayed home and they paid the ultimate price for it.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah. Well listen, I am all for watching out over your pets, but sometimes you just gotta keep your family safe and feed the dogs what you can give it a lot of food, a lot of water. And it should only take a couple of days before you are able to get back into the house. So if it is still standing. So I mean, yeah, listen, a lot of difficult choices need to be made. So hopefully we do not have to make them.
Francois McKinnon: We just posted a show this morning, episode 14 it was. And we posted it today and now we are recording this episode 15.
Oscar Santamaria: 15. 14 yesterday. And now right now we are recording episode 16 because we think that the state might lose power and you and I will not be in communication for a few days.
Francois McKinnon: Yep. So we are just trying to be a little bit prepared. We have had a couple of weeks where we missed a week. So we are trying to get back on track. First time in our career so far. So to give an idea, we went through a hurricane and I could not even send you a text message. It was crazy. We are so used to these phones and these quick communication that when you are out of it, and I do not want to say hopefully you will go through it, but I just want you to feel it a little bit.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah. You know what I mean, listen, I kind of like rubbed it in about all my wifi that I had so many bars. I know you told me I have more bars than Fort Lauderdale has bars and my Netflix has never been clearer.
Francois McKinnon: All right. Listen, we received some emails and people want to know about things about us and about the private investigative career that we chose and why we chose them and stuff. So we have some questions. Apparently you have some for me. I have some for you. So we are going to dig right in and see what these things say. So here is a question for you, Oscar. People have asked me in your career, have you ever considered anyone being a mentor? And if you have any examples.
Oscar Santamaria: When I first started, I worked for a small company. I started in 1992 and there was a guy who worked there. He was one of the investigators, not the owner. And I always liked his demeanor. He was very straightforward. I mean, later on he opened up and became more of a friend of mine. And I think you met him. His name was Jim.
Francois McKinnon: Oh, I know Jim. He is a great investigator.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah. And he just, I just learned a lot from him over the years, how to do certain things where I did not learn that from other people, but he took the time. And he also told me something that sticks with me today. And that was about notes. He said, if you are having a problem with an investigation, always go to your notes. You are always going to find, or most of the times you are going to find the answer in your notes. And over the years I have found that to be true. He is one of the people that I certainly would consider a mentor to me.
Francois McKinnon: Great. Here is another one. What other type of investigation does Oscar handle besides surveillance for his agency?
Oscar Santamaria: So I mean, surveillance is obviously a very big part of what I do, but I do other things, mostly for personal injury type lawyers. For them I do things like property damage photos. I go out there and I take photographs of vehicles that have been involved in accidents, take measurements. I go all around the car and I take the damage inside and out. The airbags are deployed if they weren’t deployed. I also take video. I mean, sometimes there is things that you can pick up on video that you cannot see on photographs. Like for example, do the doors open well and are things shattered in the inside? You see shards of glass. I mean, you can get those with photographs, but I think it is also important to get video, which I am not asked to do, but I include it. And also like if airbags deployed, I match damage with the car. If there is shards of glass, if there is blood, if there is all sorts of things. So you know, then I compile that in a little bit of a report and I just submit it to them. And that is one of the things.
Francois McKinnon: And you guys at Optimum also do video depositions.
Oscar Santamaria: Well, no, not video deposition, video IMEs. So for compulsory medical exams or independent medical exams, they are called a number of things. I am requested to go there and just videotape the exam. These types of exams are the one shot that the insurance company gets to examine the plaintiff. Most of the times the plaintiff’s attorneys just want to make sure that the exam was covered correctly and a thorough exam was conducted. So they had me go out there and videotape the entire exam, which is noninvasive. It usually consists of just a brief interview about the accident, medical history, and then a noninvasive exam consisting of bends and different sensations and a little bit of strength type of things. But it is very simple to do. So that is another thing I do for personal injury attorneys. And of course the witness statements do that as well and locate sometimes background checks for them. That is what I do other than surveillance.
Francois McKinnon: Okay. Thank you, Oscar. Actually had a couple of episodes this week where I have dealt with people that were clearly mentally ill and it is very difficult. You feel bad for them because they believe what they are telling you and you know in your heart that there is nothing that you can really do to help them. And you just got to kind of let them off gently. I usually just you know just tell them I do not handle that type of investigation and that they need to call somebody who kind of does more along that line of work. And is that you that referred those two to me last week?
Oscar Santamaria: Yes, I do. I didn’t think that was very funny.
Francois McKinnon: I send you all my potential mental patients. With the chips in the head and the speaker coming out of the ear.
Oscar Santamaria: That is you know what I am telling you, I am getting those more and more. Almost to the point that the other night, I sleep horribly. But the other night I actually had a dream and I dreamt that there was like a conspiracy of people actually putting chips in people’s brains. And these people who are calling me are actually legitimate. So I have just been going down a lot of rabbit holes lately. And yeah.
Francois McKinnon: No, I listen, I dealt with this before and it gets to be a little bit too much, but you have to be polite and say, I am sorry, I got to take this other call and good luck and whatever. Or tell them to call a lawyer. They are really going to love you about it. And so what do you think about this? I am sure you got the same phone calls that I have received before.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah, being in this industry, you are certainly going to get those calls every once in a while. I just had one earlier this week, the guy, and this happens to be a common thread lately of the people that have been calling or emailing. Sometimes I even get things in the mail. And the common thread are things being implanted in their head through a medical procedure or some other method. And these people are, I mean, they believe it and their story almost sounds compelling. But what I try to do to get out of these cases is I try to be as patient as possible and understand that some people just cannot help it. But I try to just tell them that I do not handle that type of work. And I tell them that they should try to find somebody who does. And maybe they should consult with an attorney, because if there are things that are implanted in their heads, that should be fairly easy to detect. And an attorney would make sure that…
Francois McKinnon: Yeah, I think so. An attorney would pay to get this test done. There is going to be some lawyers that are not going to like you if you refer them to them. But no, I understand that. And it is kind of common practice in our industry that people reach out to private investigators when they cannot find any other solution. Sometimes we are like the last bid. They go, oh private investigators, maybe they can figure it out. It is mental illness. And then we deal, I think you and I deal with it properly. Some people just hang up the phone and stuff. And I do not do that. I will spend some time. And sometimes it is really weird, crazy stories, and there is not much you can do. So politely, you excuse yourself, you have another call or something.
Oscar Santamaria: You know, about a dozen years ago, I got a call from a PI friend of mine who has since passed, Jim, great guy. And he got a call from one of his attorney clients that this guy wanted to retain him to sue his neighbors who he believed were sending some sort of signals at night at 11 o’clock every night. They would send something. You could clearly hear it inside of his apartment. And the attorney says, I think this guy might be off, but I do not really know. He sounds pretty compelling. So I was told to go over there and I had a conversation. The guy seemed totally normal to me. And at 11 o’clock, I put on my camera. I told him that I was going to put my camera on.
Francois McKinnon: And oh, you actually went out there?
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah, yeah. No, I was told to go out there. The attorney wanted to know if he had a case. So I went out there and I spoke with the guy. And at 11 o’clock, I turned my camera on and was walking around the apartment. And sure enough, he says, don’t you hear it? And I was like, sir, no, I do not hear it. He is getting frustrated with me. How can you not hear it? You hear it plain as day. And I said, sir, you know, we all hear things differently. And I think that because I cannot hear it does not mean that it does not exist. So that is the reason I am videotaping this because the sound is going to pick it up and we are going to have a sound engineer listen to the whole tape and he will be the one who is going to be able to decide if there is some noise on this. I went ahead. I did it. I spoke with my client the next day and I was like, yeah, you know, I am pretty sure he is crazy.
Francois McKinnon: So well, crazy is a long word, but I understand what you mean. That happened to me in my life.
Oscar Santamaria: No, no, no, no, no, no. He was nuts. Okay. So he is crazy.
Francois McKinnon: Let me ask you a question, Oscar. Let us say that you are doing a surveillance and you follow your claimant to a gas station. And while another person, while you are observing them pumping gas, you see a man reach out in a woman’s car and grab her purse. And then your claimant takes off. What would you do?
Oscar Santamaria: Well, I would stay on my claimant. Hopefully, I would have the wherewithal to videotape the person taking the purse, getting into another car and leaving. But I think my main objective would be to stay with my claimant.
Francois McKinnon: I mean, let us just say that you were paying for that job. And that happened while you were paying for that specific type of investigation. You are the adjuster, you are the husband, whatever. Would you be happy that I broke off to chase the thief?
Oscar Santamaria: I mean, listen, if there is other things you can do…
Francois McKinnon: It is always a good idea to get some videotape to be able to maybe get a headshot of the person. And you can share that with the law enforcement later on. But I would as well stay with the claimant or subject.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah, I think you have to. I mean, listen, for that particular thing. Now, if there is a massive shooting going on or something, well then, obviously, you should stay, get as much video as you want. I mean, listen, I really do not know what to do in that situation. But I mean, if it was as you described that you followed somebody to a gas station as you are getting video of them pumping gas, you see somebody going to the passenger side of a car, grabbing a purse, getting into another car and leaving. Well, I mean, if you have that on tape, if you have the tag of the vehicle, you leave and as you are following your claimant, you call the police and you let them know what you observed. Clearly, at a gas station, they are also going to have surveillance cameras. So you describe what you observed and then they will go and get the video from them. They will call you back if they need to and you can give them your video. But yeah, I wouldn’t break off a case if I see a crime taking place. Now, if I am following somebody on the turnpike, we will say, and they have a blowout or somebody has a blowout and goes into a canal, I mean, that is a whole different story. Somebody’s life is on the line. So I will make an exception for that. But I mean, if it was something, whenever I go to a gas station, I am actually very aware of that. And people should, at this point, be aware that when you are at a gas station, you should probably lock all your doors and keep your head on a swivel because that is where most things are going to happen. As a PI there is a lot of drug dealings going on. There is a lot of theft. I mean, it is an easy target. People are out of their car, they are distracted, putting gas. Sometimes they walk out of their car, go to the convenience store, leave the doors open. That is a crime of opportunity. So you should really, when you are filling gas or going to a gas station, you should really keep your head on a swivel, make sure your doors are locked, and not keep anything valuable where somebody can steal it. Maybe put it under your seat or on the driver’s side or something because that is not that uncommon.
Francois McKinnon: Here is another question. Have you ever been in an instance that you thought that luck overtook skills and you think that whatever experience you have was better because of luck than anything else?
Oscar Santamaria: Yes, actually. Listen, luck definitely plays a factor in this industry. I have a couple of examples where it could have gone completely different. On these two particular cases, I actually was able to get a lot of video, and I do not think really that had anything to do with skill. It had everything to do with luck. On the first case, it was a middle aged woman who was living with her daughter. She had two vehicles registered to her, lived in a gated apartment complex. I was able to get in and only saw one of the vehicles there. The daughter was the one driving that vehicle, looked like she was an Uber driver. Drove around and realized it was the daughter, goes back. I didn’t have a picture of the claimant. All I had was an approximate age and where she worked. She was never at her job. It was a car rental agency that was one of these ones that you call, and then you meet the person, and I guess you get the vehicle. I worked it a couple of times. I didn’t see her again. I only saw the daughter. Then I decided, you know what? Something just told me to go out that day. I go out that day, and neither car is there. Again, only the one car was seen throughout the investigation. All of a sudden, I see it arrive about two hours into the case, and it is the daughter. She stops in front of the building, and inside goes the claimant. I wasn’t 100% sure it was a claimant. It could have been an Uber ride, but then she drove her to the work location where this lady had the car rental agency. I then made the connection, okay, this has to be her. What are the odds? She didn’t stay at her work location very long, ended up going to a car rental agency, and ended up renting a car. And because of that, I was able to get a whole bunch of video the following day, because I had actually worked it that day, and I had seen that now she has got a rental car that she is using. I ended up getting her shopping, going to the flea market, going to a couple of thrift stores, a whole bunch of things that I would have never gotten had I not worked it, and seen her daughter picking her up. I mean, I was actually thinking about breaking off the case and just saying, oh, the car is not even here. What am I even here for? But it really all worked out really well, and I think that luck played a really big part in that.
Francois McKinnon: Also the fact that you decided to go out on that day and say, okay, let me go try to do a surveillance and see what happens. You are right. Sometimes you show up, and I remember one time I showed up at a surveillance. Sometimes I show up earlier. As I pulled in, the subject was leaving in a different car as well, and I would have never known about this car. Apparently, he had just purchased it, and it was not showing up on the dossier. So I got lucky, and I had four days of great surveillance because I showed up early that morning.
Oscar Santamaria: Again, luck definitely plays a part in this. I had another case where a guy had a couple of vehicles, and he had a little ATV, and I had his provided address. I went out there. Neither of his vehicles were there, but his little ATV was there. It was under the staircase. So I knew then that, okay, the guy definitely lives here. I am going to wait around. A few hours later, one of the vehicles comes with a guy. He doesn’t go inside the apartment, but he checks on the ATV, and he ends up leaving. So it is one of the claimant’s vehicles. He is about the right age. I end up following him, and I lose him. I lose him in traffic pretty quickly, and I was like, damn, I cannot believe this. I was all down on myself because even though it was only the first day, we are a few hours in, I just figured it was a good opportunity to get some video of this guy. I ended up going back to the residence, and nothing happens. I ended up breaking, and then coming back at like four o’clock. No vehicles there again, and shortly thereafter, the actual claimant shows up in the other vehicle, and he goes inside, and the guy just left really early. The other car that was registered to him never came back. So, you know, had I not lost the guy, I would have probably stuck with that guy as being the claimant all day because they never supplied me with the picture. There was no social media. He was about the right age, about the right height, everything, and it turned out that it wasn’t him. So, got plenty of video of this guy. It ended up being a really easy case, and again, had I not lost that one person, I would have probably ended up not getting any video of the actual claimant.
Francois McKinnon: So, you know, again, luck sometimes is an important factor in this. I totally agree. So, that should wrap up another show. Just want to let people know that on our next show, we are going to have criminal attorney Jonathan Friedman, who is going to be breaking down the Sean Puffy Combs, other known as the P. Diddy case, and just talk about that and what his thoughts are and what the defense strategy is going to be, and we look forward to having him. He is one of our favorite people.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah, fantastic, and yeah, it should be an exciting show because all I hear right now on the social media is about, did he do that, did he? So, it is everywhere. So, it will be fun to do it with a proper criminal attorney.
Francois McKinnon: All right, Oscar, we will see you next week.
Oscar Santamaria: All right.
Francois McKinnon: Thank you for listening to the Miami PI Chronicles podcast. For all of your investigative needs in Florida, please contact McKinnon Investigative Group at 954 513 7414. That is 954 513 7414, or visit us at www.miginvestigations.com. Thanks again for listening, and please remember to share, follow, and like.
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