Francois McKinnon: Welcome to the Miami PI Chronicles podcast. I am your host Francois McKinnon from McKinnon Investigative Group and I am Oscar Santamaria of Optimum Investigations.
Oscar Santamaria: We created this podcast with the goal to educate, inform and entertain aspiring beginner and seasoned professionals in the investigative field. With over 60 years of combined experience we offer invaluable insights and lessons learned. While we may not have all the answers our knowledge can certainly benefit anyone interested in this dynamic profession. So sit back, listen and enjoy these episodes. Please do not forget to like, share and follow. Hey Francois, welcome to episode 13. Hey Oscar, how is it going?
Francois McKinnon: It is going pretty well. How about with yourself? Doing really good. We have been pretty busy this week putting this meet and greet to show coming up on September 16th at the Ocean Matter Beach Resort in Fort Lauderdale and we are getting a lot of emails and we have already started sending our SVPs and the reaction has been wonderful. This is going to be a fantastic event and can you tell us a little bit what is going to happen? What do we plan on doing?
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah, first of all when you sent me the photos of the place I was blown away. The place is beautiful. We are going to have some games, some giveaways. We have got some sponsors. We have prizes. Yeah, we were able to secure some solid sponsors. People that we do business, you and I for years. I just look forward to it. We have a lot. We know a lot of people after 60 years of combined experience. They are coming out of the woodwork that I have met and spoken to so many new people last week that I did not even know. I have heard of their companies but I did not know the investigators and now they are reaching out. They are actually asking us if we secured any raids, special raids and we have. All they have to do is call the hotel and tell them that they are with the Miami PI Chronicles meet and greet and they are going to go ahead and give them a serious discount if they want to book a room. But let us talk about our little gathering.
Francois McKinnon: Yeah, no. So like I said, you sent me some photographs and I was just blown away and I was blown away by a lot of the sponsors that are backing us on this thing. Oh, it is blown away indeed but I think that they are starting to believe in our show and you have some big boys that are stepping up and I think it is awesome. Let us carry on with that. One of the sponsors is Brickhouse Security. I have used them over the years for many things, pen cameras, keychain fobs. I use a remote camera, something that they have called a black box.
Oscar Santamaria: Oh yeah, I have used a black box too. They are great. You just leave them there, they do their job, they get the greatest video and then you retrieve it, you are good to go.
Francois McKinnon: Yeah, about 12 to 16 hours on those things and I actually had a case where it was a child custody case and the woman was living in the same apartment complex with her boyfriend but she would leave the kids at night and go to the guy’s house and then leave early in the morning and the client wanted me to get her arriving at the house and then leaving in the morning. The problem was it was a gated community and although I could get in, I am not getting in at 6 o’clock in the morning when she left to get the kids ready for school so I actually used one of their black boxes. I put it down in the little section overlooking their door and I was able to get her coming out every single morning for two weeks. That little black box that I paid 100 bucks for actually made me over 2000 dollars so.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah, that is awesome and also secured cool wear. Cool wear is assured that you can actually tan through but it is one of the better coolest apparel to wear if you are playing tennis and it is hot and humid or golf or doing a surveillance as you know gets hot as hell. This thing you turn the AC on the car for how about 20 seconds and it cools you off completely and then you can turn it off.
Francois McKinnon: Yeah, you know what I got some samples today and I am going to try them tomorrow and I am going to let you know what I think. That sounds good. You are really going to like them. I know the owner of that company for over 40 years and he is a great guy and he was kind enough to provide us with samples as well as some giveaways for our audience at the meet and greet on September 16th, 2024.
Oscar Santamaria: Awesome. We hope everybody comes out and we are sending some invites.
Francois McKinnon: Yeah, if you have not received an invite and you want to get one please go to miamipichronicles at gmail.com and we will be sure include your phone number and we will send you an invite and if you are around we would love to meet to meet you guys and see you and it is going to be a fun event. We are all about trying to teach in our show some information about the private investigative and security business as well as be it lighter and give some funny stories because people always ask us what is your favorite PI story? It is so hard to pinpoint one down so the thing is we are going to be interviewing a lot of these investigators that are out at the event but we want to give a chance to other private investigators or lawyers that have great stories that are funny or bizarre or weird. We want to give them an opportunity for us to share it on the show so all they have to do is go to miamipichronicles at gmail.com and we will definitely get back to you as soon as we can. And we look forward to seeing you guys out there. Absolutely, it is going to be a lot of fun. I am very excited.
Oscar Santamaria: So we were also discussing our listeners have been interacting with us via email quite well and frequently. Here are some questions that I have that they have been sending out to us. People have asked Francois Wasker, have you ever had the mobile surveillance gone bad, the story about it being chased by a subject maybe?
Francois McKinnon: No, I do. How about you? I do not know. Well, I recall one a long time ago, probably 15, 20 years ago now. It was palimony. This guy was supposed to be paying a certain amount of child support. He said he was homeless living in his truck and he was going to a deposition. And so it was a domestic case. It was not an insurance related case. For those types of cases, I like to make sure that I have reinforcements. I had one bite at the apple, so I had somebody come with me. This investigator was actually very good, but a little bit too brazen for my liking. And he ended up
Oscar Santamaria: Too brazen like what? Explain. Just a little bit too aggressive during mobile surveillance.
Francois McKinnon: So the client told me that he was very aware of his surroundings. He drove very aggressively and
Oscar Santamaria: So he was getting burned pretty much?
Francois McKinnon: Well, I mean, no, she just said that he was a type of guy that was very aware of his surroundings. So he tried not to be too aggressive. And so that is when I ended up getting a second investigator in there and he showed up for his deposition. And when he left, he jumped on the highway and he ended up going north. And I was telling the other investigator, listen, man, you are getting a little bit too aggressive. You do not need to be that aggressive. And he said, ah, just relax. You know what? Just calm down. You are just paranoid. And I was like, I am telling you, I do not think it is a good idea. Next thing you know, the guy gets off the highway, goes into a gas station, and then he starts driving a little bit erratic, ends up getting behind the investigator and starts chasing him all over the place. My guy jumped on the highway and he is on the phone with me. What do I do? This guy knows. I told you you were to be too aggressive. And anyway, it ended up being a mess. The police got involved. That sounds like a mess already.
Oscar Santamaria: No, it was. And I had to break the news to the client. So listen, it is kind of embarrassing, but these things happen. And he was probably a younger investigator trying to show you that he knew his thing and he was better than you maybe. And even though you told him, stay back a little bit, take it easy. Sometimes the younger investigators, and listen, they want to prove themselves that they are good or what have you. But the thing is, I have seen it before myself, and sometimes they really get a little bit up there, like almost rear ending in a car.
Francois McKinnon: Yeah. You know what? Some people are coachable. Other people are not. And in this situation, he just thought that he knew more than somebody who has been doing this a little bit longer. And he ended up learning a valuable lesson, just especially when you have a two man surveillance, you do not need to be all that aggressive, especially when you are warned by the client that he is somebody who is ultra aware of his surroundings. It was a teachable moment, I guess. Yeah, a good one.
Oscar Santamaria: Here is another email. Who would you prefer not to conduct surveillance on? I have my own answer on that.
Francois McKinnon: Well, police officers, I would just rather not. Yeah, you and I are very pro law enforcement, but the problem is that they are extremely aware of their surroundings. And whenever you get a case that specifically that involves children and alimony or whatever, it is kind of a tricky situation. And since they are a little, I do not want to say paranoid, but they always keep an eye on their surroundings and they have guns. And if they feel like they are threatened, they will shoot you. I am not saying they will, but you know what I am saying?
Oscar Santamaria: Actually, when you say that they are paranoid, you are absolutely correct. Listen, they see the worst parts of humanity every single day. So it is not like people who usually live in a bubble that you never see man’s inhumanity to man. They see it on a daily basis and they are always aware. They know that it can happen in the worst of neighborhoods and the best of neighborhoods. Just something that I would rather not, someone I would just rather not follow if I do not have to. I mean, obviously I will if a client requests that, but if I had my choice, it would be no. I would much rather follow a 70 year old lady that lives in an apartment complex with a lot of shade trees. That is like a perfect surveillance setup.
Francois McKinnon: That is my favorite. Because shaded trees are very important to us. Specifically in South Florida, you are always looking for shade and to be able to catch a break a little bit. Have you ever been asked to investigate someone multiple times over your career? Actually, I have. Two cases come to mind.
Oscar Santamaria: One was, I guess, an investigative journalist or he is on the society page journalist. In any event, apparently this guy would piss off people every once in a while by writing a story about them. And then they wanted to get dirt on this guy. That particular person came across my desk three separate times over the years. Oh, from different clients? Yeah.
Francois McKinnon: Yes. And actually the very first time that I did it, I found nothing on the guy. There was just like one simple municipal ordinance. I think he was walking his dog without a leash, something to that effect. And that was it. And then they wanted me to get his garbage, his trash, just to see if you can find anything in there that might be incriminating. He lived in a gated community, but I was actually able to see through a little gate in the fence, a little break in the fence, and see where his place was. And I noticed that there was no trash can outside. Everybody else had their trash can. I worked it on the day that I Googled and found out what day the trash was. And if he did put his trash bag out, I was going to just jump the fence. It was not a really big thing. I was a lot younger at the time. So when the garbage truck came around the block, he had actually come out with his wife and his kid with his garbage bag in his hand, and he deposited it himself in the back of the truck. Every time it came back to me, I was just like, man, listen, this is not my first rodeo with this guy. I have been asked quite often. And so I am sure there has been other investigators that this guy has come across their desk.
Oscar Santamaria: That is kind of across the same target.
Francois McKinnon: Yeah. Well, he was persistent. He is a journalist, so he does not always find out or divulge information that are best about people.
Oscar Santamaria: There was also a surveillance that I did. And a few years later, I went to work for another company, and some of the PIs that I had become friends with were talking about this case. And it sounded very similar to the one that I had worked. And lo and behold, it turned out it was the same case. And that thing went on for years. I had worked it for a company, and then I went to this other company. I had worked it. They had worked it. She was like a professional claimant. And she lived in a very difficult neighborhood in the Keys. And you really had to follow her for quite a ways before you could determine who was inside the vehicle because you could not sit anywhere on her house. So in any event, I think I know of at least four or five investigators that have worked that same case over the years. So it does happen. The claimant from hell. Yeah, for sure.
Francois McKinnon: That one was for sure. Jessica from Tampa wanted to know if you had any regrets of how to handle a certain situation, explain, and what would you do differently these days?
Oscar Santamaria: First of all, I have trained some investigators over the years, and I kind of cite this thing as an example. I guess everything in life is about perspective. You have the perspective in this particular story of a subcontractor, and then you have the perspective of an investigator who is hiring you to do a job. In any event, in those days, I was just basically a private subcontractor. I did not really farm out jobs to other people. I basically worked just exclusively as a subcontractor. So I did this job, and this guy was a little bit abrasive. I have always tried to do what I was told and do the best job possible, but I have always had a little bit of an issue with people that come across a little bit aggressive. And this guy came across this way. It was an IME, and even though the claimant’s car was right in front of me, he was, in my opinion, he was playing a Monday morning quarterback, wondering why I did not go to the IME and just was waiting on his car.
Francois McKinnon: Yeah, we get a lot of that, the Monday morning quarterbacking after we do our job, and most of them have never sat in the car for more than three hours on surveillance.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah. Yeah. So in any event, he got a little annoyed with me, and I did not appreciate his tone, and this was a 3 day case. And I guess I got a little bit defensive, and I just, I am ashamed to admit, I just kind of like just quit the job. I was just like, screw it. Remember, he told me, listen, this is a 3 day case. What am I supposed to do now? I really regret that. Years later, I was in a position where I could hire people, and a similar instance happened to me, and now I had a different perspective.
Francois McKinnon: Yeah, because you realize that the guy needed a couple more days of surveillance done, and you could not stand him because he was rude. I know you forever, and you do not like people that are rude for no reason.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah, but you know what? I now have a different perspective to see it from, and it really made me feel horrible. I mean, I really did not care about what happened in my own case. It just kind of like really made me really just disappointed in myself that the way I handled that, you know, as a younger man, and sometimes with anything in life, it is about perspective, and even you just have to try to understand where somebody else is coming from. And if I ever come across this gentleman again, I will probably apologize, but that is one of the things…
Francois McKinnon: Why do you not apologize to him right now on the show?
Oscar Santamaria: Nah, I do not think I am going to do that. We are not doing anything. You probably will not even remember, which is the saddest thing, yet I do. Maybe you are too emotional, or you are emotional, which is not a bad thing to be emotional. Nah, nah. These days, men that pretend they do not have emotions and stuff, we are human beings like everybody else, and certain things hurt us. You and I are professionals. We have worked our butt off to get our clients to make them happy, and you and I are very much the same when it comes to that. We want to get results for our client. When you sometimes get a harsh client like this, it is kind of depressing. You are going, I am doing everything I can. You cannot make them jump up a fence when they cannot walk, you know?
Francois McKinnon: Yeah, you know, I strive to be as professional as possible, and I really do think that in that situation, I really fail. And again, that is probably my greatest… Oscar, you did not fail. You are growing as a man, and…
Oscar Santamaria: No, everything is about perspective. Just try to understand the other persons, and maybe this will be a better world. And that should wrap up another episode, episode 13. Just wanted to remind everybody about our event on Monday, September 16th, 2024 at 6 p.m. at the Ocean Manor Beach Resort. We would like to thank our sponsors, the Ocean Manor Beach Resort, Colware, and BrickHouse Security. We hope to see everybody out there. This is a good chance to get to network with fellow investigators. We are going to have games and prizes. I think it will be a pretty fun time. So if you want more information, just please email us at miamichroniclespi at gmail.com. It is miamichronicles at gmail.com.
Francois McKinnon: Yes, I was just testing you to see if… Right, because people do not know, there is always a test after every show. I want to ask you again, what is it?
Oscar Santamaria: It is miamichronicles at gmail.com. That is right. So folks, we are excited, and please reach out to us anytime if you have any questions or comments or anything, and we hope to see you on Monday, September 16th. Have a great night, and we will see you then.
Francois McKinnon: Thank you for listening to the Miami P.I. Chronicles Podcast. For all of your investigative needs in Florida, please contact McKinnon Investigative Group at 954 513 7414. That is 954 513 7414, or visit us at www.miginvestigations.com. Thanks again for listening, and please remember to share, follow, and like.
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