Francois McKinnon: Welcome to the Miami PI Chronicles podcast. I am your host, Francois McKinnon from McKinnon Investigative Team.
Oscar Santamaria: And I am Oscar Santamaria of Optimum Investigations.
Francois McKinnon: We created this podcast with the goal to educate, inform and entertain aspiring beginner and seasoned professionals in the investigative field. With over 60 years of combined experience, we offer invaluable insights and lessons learned. While we may not have all the answers, our knowledge can certainly benefit anyone interested in this dynamic profession. So sit back, listen and enjoy these episodes. Please do not forget to like, share and follow. Hello, Oscar. Welcome back.
Oscar Santamaria: Hey, Francois, how are you doing?
Francois McKinnon: I am doing well. It has been an exciting week. We are in the works of doing a get together with all the PIs and our listeners at the Manor Beach Resort Hotel in Fort Lauderdale. What a splendid location. It is on the ocean. And we are going to be chatting with our listeners and lawyers from our area or from anywhere. Whoever wants to come, they are welcome to come. It is going to be on Monday, September 16th at 6 p.m. So it is going to be from 6 to 10 p.m. And we are going to have lots of fun. And we are in the process of talking to a very large sponsor. So I have been working on that and we will have more information next week. And we will let our audience know on social media. And we wanted to ask our audience and our PIs out there and lawyers if they have great stories. Once we are at the Manor Beach Hotel, we are going to make some time to speak to them and also to interview them for different shows regarding their best, wildest case that they have ever had. So I think people always want to hear PI stories and lawyer stories. So I think it will be a great time. So if you want to participate in the show or from your home, you can do so by emailing us questions. Just give us your information. We will be in contact with you and we will forward you an intake sheet regarding your stories and who you are and which company you work for. So what do you think, Oscar? Sounds like a good plan.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah, that is going to be fun. And it will be fun to reunite with all of the PIs that we have met through the years and talk about the business and what is new and stuff like that.
Francois McKinnon: So we will bring that up on a show. We will be filming for a couple of days at the Manor Beach Hotel. So great people. And now we are looking to get that big sponsor to bring them on. So if we do that, that will tell the audience a little bit more of what is going to go on, which is unclear right now, but it is going to be a great event and a lot of fun.
Oscar Santamaria: Well, we should know more next week.
Francois McKinnon: Yeah, exactly. So we will post it on social media. And if anybody are interested in having their stories read or to be interviewed on September 16th, please email us at Miami PI Chronicles at Gmail dot com. So for the show this evening, episode 11, Oscar, already. Wow. Time flies. We are flying through this. We wanted to discuss, and it is a great point to discuss how to appear in court, what you should say, what you should do, the mannerisms you should use. You want to give us your take on that?
Oscar Santamaria: Sure. Testifying in court is always very important. So I think the first and foremost, you want to have a neat appearance, always dress properly for court. You are a professional. Make sure your clothes are clean, not tattered. They are ironed. Try to go in a suit and a tie. If you do not have the jacket, at least go in suit and dress pants. Remember that you are sworn to tell the truth. So just tell it. Honesty is always the best policy. So do not stop and try to figure out what answer will best help or hurt your side. Just answer the question to the best of your ability. Do not exaggerate. If you tell the truth, then nobody can cross you up.
Francois McKinnon: Yeah, I think in these situations, it is always best not to say too much or volunteer too much information. You have to answer honestly, and most of the time it will be yes or no question. And if there is something that they are misleading, the other attorney, the attorney you are working for will step in. So what else do you got to ask her?
Oscar Santamaria: I would suggest that you speak clearly and loudly enough so that the furthest jury can hear you easily. Oftentimes there are microphones in there that will help, but just want to make sure that you are not mumbling and that you are speaking clearly and do not repeat so many words like I do with the, and the ants. So try to refrain from those, at least while you are testifying.
Francois McKinnon: A lot of people do that. It is not, it is not a big deal. No. You give me guilt trips about it.
Oscar Santamaria: Well, I am just trying to better us. Don’t worry.
Francois McKinnon: It is a war game. Our editor does as best as he can.
Oscar Santamaria: Yes. He earns his money.
Francois McKinnon: So in any event, you should also always listen carefully to the questions asked of you, take your time to think through the questions. You make sure you have time to formulate your answers. If you do not understand the question asked to have it repeated, but just make sure that you guys are on the same page, that you understand what the question is. And then just try to articulate that the best that you can.
Oscar Santamaria: Do not be afraid to look the jury in the eye that shows confidence. When you look at somebody in the eye, it means you are, that you are seeming truthful to them. So acknowledge that they are there and just scan about and do not be afraid to look at them in the eye.
Francois McKinnon: A lot of the people that are new to testify in court, I feel are very nervous. They want to show that their testimony will bring a lot of positiveness for the defense team. And sometimes being that nervous is not positive for your side. So you have to remain calm and as you said, pay attention to the questions and listen to them in detail and wait till it is your time to answer the question. Do not just jump in the middle of the question because then it is only going to make things longer and they are going to make you more nervous.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah. So just moving on, always be courteous. Even if the lawyer questioning you may appear to be discourteous, you do not want to lose your temper. You do not want to appear cocky. You will lose respect from the judge and maybe even the jury.
Francois McKinnon: A lot of time, the attorney on the other side will try to discredit the investigator or anybody else testifying. That is very important to stand your ground and to not get upset because they will try to get under your skin. It is their job. That is what they do. But still you have to be positive, confident and face forward and speak only the truth.
Oscar Santamaria: Always. I mean, you are sworn to do that and that is what you have to do. Also be sure to answer with yes, sir. Yes, ma’am. No, sir. No, ma’am. And always address the judge as your honor. And no matter how much the opposing counsel eggs you on, do not lose your temper. Remember that some attorneys want you to lose your temper because they cannot get you on merit, so they are trying to discredit you, making you seem unhinged. Do not play that tactic. The best way you can get back at them is just being calm, cool and collected. Do not argue with the opposing attorney. Try not to seem nervous. Get positive answers when you can and just tell the truth to the best of your knowledge.
Francois McKinnon: Do not nod your head for yes or no. Always speak those answers so that the court reporter can log that in. That is a big mistake that is observed in courts. When somebody testified, they will start nodding or say no and nobody knows or hears them. And the court reporter cannot put it down. So that is a very good point. Thank you.
Oscar Santamaria: You should also answer only the questions that you are asked. Do not volunteer information. If it is a simple yes or no, just answer it as a simple yes or no. The less you say.
Francois McKinnon: Do not elaborate. You are right.
Oscar Santamaria: Do not elaborate. The less you say, the better it is. If you feel a question is improper, the attorney will object. If a question, an objection is not made, then just answer it. Stop speaking instantly when the judge interrupts you or when an attorney objects to a question. And I would say finally, when you are coming off the witness stand after testify, just wear a confident expression. Do not smile or appear or have a smirk on your face.
Francois McKinnon: I told you there it is. You saw my video.
Oscar Santamaria: Exactly. Just follow some of those guidelines and you should be OK.
Francois McKinnon: OK, well, listen, we are going to take a quick break and we will be right back with a story that you and I spoke about last night that I swear to God, I could not sleep. I was kept thinking about the case and I was laughing so much. My stomach hurt. So we will be right back. And we are back. So, Oscar, before we took the break, we were discussing a story that last night you and I talked about, and I just thought it was the funniest thing. And I kept thinking about it, that the way you said the story, I thought it was very funny. We had to alter a couple of things on this to be able to speak about it. But I want you to go ahead and tell our audience, share with our audience, please, a funny story, an awkward story and a crazy story.
Oscar Santamaria: Sure. So this happened over 20 years ago before any kind of social media or anything. Hopefully the statute of limitations has run out, but.
Francois McKinnon: No names, please.
Oscar Santamaria: Names have been changed to protect the innocent. So in any event. So years ago, I was working a case and I followed my claimant to a residence. I think it was his grandparents’ residence, and he started mowing their lawn. There wasn’t too many places to set up there as one of those tight neighborhoods. So I saw a residence that had no vehicles in the driveway, and I just sat up there and I was just getting video of my guy mowing his grandparents’ lawn. A few minutes later, the residents of this home arrived. A lady came out. I spoke with her. I told her if I was somebody in the neighborhood and I am just waiting for them to leave, if she minds if I stay there. She was very nice, very kind lady. And she says, yeah, no problem. She goes, do you mind if I get a card? Because I might have something for you coming up.
Francois McKinnon: So as a PI, she was looking for private investment.
Oscar Santamaria: Right, right, right. So I gave her my card. And a few weeks later, she called and she wanted to hire me for a very odd request.
Francois McKinnon: I have heard a few in my lifetime, but please elaborate on that.
Oscar Santamaria: Well, apparently she was having an affair with one of her doctors. And the more the affair unfolded, the guiltier the doctor felt. And he abruptly ended the affair, which left her heartbroken, even suicidal. I mean, I almost became her therapist at this point. And I really felt bad for her. She said that since it ended so abruptly, she had nothing to remember him by. And all she really wanted from me was just to get a video or a photograph of him so that she had something to remember him by. I mean, she really, really did love this guy.
Francois McKinnon: So this is before social media and everything. So she did not have that. So let me ask you something. This client of yours, we call him Madame Cuckoo. Was she married? Was he married? What was the situation?
Oscar Santamaria: Oh, no. Yes, they were both married. They were both married to other people. Yes, yes. But she said she just never felt this passionate about somebody.
Francois McKinnon: And she got into like a lot of intimate details about them. And what kind of doctor was he?
Oscar Santamaria: I would rather not say. But with any event, I went out, I worked the case, I went to his office, but apparently he did not show up that day and she was getting desperate. So she was afraid that if I kept doing that, he may not go to his office. So I really sensed her desperation. And so she actually suggested that she would pay for me to have a highly invasive procedure at his office so I could
Francois McKinnon: I know what it is.
Oscar Santamaria: How do you say no to that. I don’t know.
Francois McKinnon: Well, listen, she figured at that time I could get a photograph of him. And after I sent that, the appointment she wanted to make for you.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Francois McKinnon: Were you supposed to go through the exam or just like show up over there and get a photo?
Oscar Santamaria: Listen, I did not get that far in. I mean, honestly, you think I am going to think about it for a moment? I mean, Jesus Christ, I am a private investigator. I am not some guinea pig. So I told her, listen, you know what? Why do we not just call that Plan Z?
Francois McKinnon: Because we are going to come up with It was not Plan B or C or D. No, it was not Plan B. It was like Z. Listen, if there was more letters, it would be Z top or something like that. So this exam was not happening, right?
Oscar Santamaria: No, no, no, no, no. So then she suggested that I call him anonymously and I just tell him, listen, I know about the affair. I just want you to know you are not getting away with anything and just hang up. And she thought that this would get him to call her, get really worried, oh my God, somebody called me and they told me this. And maybe, I guess her hope was for them to meet, I am guessing, so he can explain the story to her and she can see him one last time.
Francois McKinnon: Well, I think that you are right. I think that she wanted you to do this for him to reach back out to her and maybe rekindle their relationship or something.
Oscar Santamaria: So I told her, listen, I am really uncomfortable with both of those requests. And I thought to myself, you know what, I have a colleague who is, I think, equally as insane as she is and it would be
Francois McKinnon: That is another PI.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was not me, right? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, actually, probably slightly crazier than even you. So I gave her his number and that was the end of it, I thought. I thought, okay, almost a year later, I get another call from this woman and she asked if I could have my colleague call her as she no longer had his number and she had just kept my card from our initial meeting. So I did, and again, I forgot about it and never followed up. And the next time I spoke with this colleague, it is probably, I do not know, several months later, I mentioned to him, hey, did you ever contact that woman that reached out to me for you to call her? And he was like, yeah. And then he Here comes the funny part. Then he told me this story. He told me that he worked the surveillance for the lady and the subject, once again, did not go to his office. She then, of course, suggested that highly invasive procedure that I spoke about, which he also
Francois McKinnon: For this other PI to do? She suggested that second time, oh boy.
Oscar Santamaria: Which he quickly refused, rightly so. And then she mentioned the phone call and he was okay with it. So he had called her, I mean, basically said
Francois McKinnon: But hold on. Which phone call? You are talking about him placing a phone call
Oscar Santamaria: He placed a phone call to the doctor like she had suggested that I do. Okay.
Francois McKinnon: And this guy, this other PI decided to go ahead and make a phone call.
Oscar Santamaria: He made a phone call according to him and he said, listen, I just want you to know that I know what you are doing. I know you are having an affair. I am not going to say nothing, but I just want you to know that do not think that you are getting away with anything. And of course, I guess, hoping that she would That the doctor would call him, but that did not happen at all. The doctor freaked out. He went to his wife. He told her everything about the whole affair. She then goes to his office, grabs the file of this woman and so
Francois McKinnon: Oh, a patient’s file. She grabs the patient. That is the wife of the physician.
Oscar Santamaria: The wife of the physician. Oh boy, that is breaking a lot of rules already. So she gets her information, calls her in a fit of rage, saying that she is going to tell her husband because this lady is married as well, and that threatening all sorts of action against this woman. So my client, she is now, oh my God, she freaks out because she felt threatened. And also she does not want her husband to find out about the affair.
Francois McKinnon: So it sounds like they are both sides are in the same situation, in a pickle.
Oscar Santamaria: Not knowing what to do, she contacts an attorney, explains the situation to him. The attorney then contacts the doctor, tells him that his actions crossed basically every ethical boundary in the medical profession, and that his wife going through his records was in violation of multiple HIPAA laws.
Francois McKinnon: So the attorney then it is coming.
Oscar Santamaria: Offered him the following deal. You tell your wife to cease and desist contacting her. You do not contact her anymore, and we are not going to sue you for the millions of dollars that she could get if she was really interested in seeking retribution. And for that, you are going to pay us 50,000 dollars. So they agreed. And my friend said that after the phone call, they had met at a cheesecake factory. She had relayed the story that I am telling you to him, and she handed him 10,000 dollars.
Francois McKinnon: The whole thing sounds fishy to me right now. Yeah.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah. Pay him 10,000 dollars and the ethics are going crazy in my mind. So she originally got 50,000.
Francois McKinnon: The lawyer probably took a cut. It is cut a third or whatever, so the balance, she kept the money and gave it 10 grand.
Oscar Santamaria: It was not her intention to ever sue. She was just hoping. She never thought it would escalate to that. She was just hoping that he would reach out to her. And I mean, honestly, if she had any malice in her heart, she could have gotten millions of dollars.
Francois McKinnon: Oh, sure.
Oscar Santamaria: And ruined this man. She actually really did love him. I mean, I really kind of felt bad for her because
Francois McKinnon: Well, she didn’t follow through to she really take him down.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah. No, she never wanted to do that. She just did not know what to do. She felt threatened by his wife. So in any event, some crazy things, be careful whose driveway you park in because you will end up getting involved in a huge mess.
Francois McKinnon: The stories that you just said kind of bothers me a little bit. Looks like this other PI was, I mean, she offered him the money. He did not ask for it, right?
Oscar Santamaria: No, he did not expect anything else. She contacted me for her to contact him, and I was just as shocked as anybody when he told me the story.
Francois McKinnon: Well, at least you did not have to get the exam for him.
Oscar Santamaria: I think she ended up pretty good. I concur with you.
Francois McKinnon: Anyways, listen, we have a lot of exciting things coming up in the next show, and the preparations for the show in September 16th in Fort Lauderdale, I think it is going to be exciting to see all of these private investigators that we know and attorneys that we have worked with for the past 30 years ourselves, and have fun, be by the ocean, and get to connect again. It will be a great business relationship event. So we look forward to that, and like I said earlier on, we are going to tell our audience where and when they can hear more about the event. So I am excited. Also, we have a big sponsor coming up in the intelligence community, so I think it is going to be wonderful, and we will keep everybody posted by next episode. And if anybody has a story, whether they can come to the event or not, please contact us at miamipichronicles at gmail.com, tell us who you are a little bit, and we will send you an intake sheet, and just fill it out, send it back, and then we will reach out to you and schedule a quick meeting to go over a show. We want to do short interviews with private investigators that have great stories. Anything else, Mr. Santamaria? No. That should cover it for today.
Oscar Santamaria: That should cover it for today.
Francois McKinnon: Okay. Well, that was a great story. Thank you for sharing, and to our listeners, thank you for following. We will be back next week. Thank you for listening to the Miami PI Chronicles podcast. For all of your investigative needs in Florida, please contact McKinnon Investigative Group at 954 513 7414, that is 954 513 7414, or visit us at www.miginvestigations.com. Thanks again for listening, and please remember to share, follow, and like.
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