Francois McKinnon: Welcome to the Miami PI Chronicles podcast. I am your host, Francois McKinnon from McKinnon Investigative Group, and I am Oscar Santamaria of Optimum Investigations. We created this podcast with the goal to educate, inform, and entertain aspiring, beginner, and seasoned professionals in the investigative field. With over 60 years of combined experience, we offer invaluable insights and lessons learned. While we may not have all the answers, our knowledge can certainly benefit anyone interested in this dynamic profession. So sit back, listen, and enjoy these episodes. Please do not forget to like, share, and follow. Hey, Oscar, welcome to the show. How are you doing this week?
Oscar Santamaria: Doing pretty well, Francois. How about yourself?
Francois McKinnon: Well, I am feeling a little bit alive today since we got Wi Fi for the first time in a week after our surveillance in Fort Lauderdale Tuesday of last week. I flew back to North Carolina to check on my wife, and we live in Maggie Valley. We have a vacation home over there, and I came here when the flight landed in Asheville. It almost crashed. It was a really hard landing. I finally got there, got my suitcase, all my gear, and then I had a driver take me back home. I got back home. I had like a day to rest, and then the hurricane got here to Western North Carolina. So I will tell you what. It has been one week, no phones as I try to communicate with you. No phones, no texts, no Wi Fi. Whomever we try to reach us sending us the text messages, it really did not work. So at one point, you would be driving around, and then in your phone, you go, text messages, but nobody would. We were not able to reply to our text message. So Christina and I took a drive, and we live in Maggie Valley in Western North Carolina in Haywood County, beautiful place, and we decided very early in the morning, and she was not up to this, and I said, listen, we got to go now, check out what is happening, see the damage and everything, because we had no communication whatsoever. So we took a drive. We saw that there were people at the Palmers. It is a tire place, a new tire place down the street from us by Maggie Valley. So we stopped in, and I heard his phone ring, his cell phone ring. So I asked Mr. Palmer, can I use your phone for a second? And he said, sure. So I dialed my sister in law in Miami to tell her, listen, we are okay. We survived and everything. We are going to be fine, but we cannot communicate. And immediately after that, the phone dropped. And while I was trying to say something or something, whatever, so then I realized, let me send a message, a text message to tell her sister to communicate with my daughter and the family to tell them we are okay, but we cannot communicate, because it is very frustrating. You get a text and then you go try to reply and it is not working. So I was able to get that out. And then there was the last text message that went out. So then we are driving back home and Christina is freaking out as usual. So we are driving back home. And then I said, oh, there is lights at this gas station. She said, listen, there is no power anywhere. There is no gas. And I said, the lights are on. I am thinking there might be some power. We got there. I pulled my credit card in. I put the gas in and I cranked it and it went through. And I kept it a couple of times to make sure it is totally full. I will tell you what it went through. And then as soon as I put the pump back in the holster of the thing, the power went off completely. So we got lucky on that. And she said, you know what? This is a disaster. Let us go back home. We ended up going back home. But the whole thing about communication is that we are very big on the communication and not adding. Everybody is sending bits and pieces of how disastrous are you guys dead? Are you alive? Because we cannot communicate. It was kind of overwhelming because of the fact that we are used to communicate so well with family and clients and friends. And when you cannot do this, it overtakes you. You go, oh my God, we are way too used to this. I remember going to work without saying anything. I just left. And now they do not know where you are. There is a big problem. And then we found out about Asheville, how bad it was in Asheville. I will tell you when it was. You saw some stuff. You send me a text message. I received a text message that said, oh my God, are you guys okay? This is like bad. You saw some video.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah, no, absolutely. I could not believe I am familiar with that place. I spent some time up in Asheville, got some friends who have a home up there and I would spend a lot of time. And I just cannot believe that a hurricane that originated here in Florida would still have such an impact in North Carolina and especially around where you live. It is pretty amazing. And the video of the area up there, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, it is absolutely devastating. I would think that by the time it reached you, that the winds would have died down and there would not really be too much damage. I thought Florida was going to get the worst of it, but man, I was wrong.
Francois McKinnon: Well, a lot of people do not understand how Asheville is built. It is kind of a huge river, two huge rivers around the city and the city is on top of a small mountain. So all of the water gets up and ends up at the bottom of the city that surrounds the entire place. Some of these people, Oscar, I finally saw video today for the first time. And I will tell you what, it was very upsetting to see how bad these people got it.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah. Back in 1992, July of 92, I first became a PI. I worked as an intern for a small company and they had a lot of work in the Miami area.
Francois McKinnon: During Hurricane Andrews?
Oscar Santamaria: Well, no. Yeah. A month later, Hurricane Andrew hit and it devastated Southwest Dade. And this is where most of this agency’s work was concentrated. So two months into my career, I was laid off because everybody was displaced. I mean, everybody, even the attorneys that this worked for, everybody lost their home. So about six months later, he called me back and I got my job back and I continued with this career. But these things can be very disruptive. Another disruption in my life came during Katrina. I had a fairly good client that was right on that Lake Pontchartrain. They were in Metairie, Louisiana.
Francois McKinnon: Oh, yeah. They were devastated over there.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah. And I never heard back from them after that.
Francois McKinnon: Really? They went out of business?
Oscar Santamaria: No, I do not know. I do not know. I almost did not want to find out. But yeah, hurricanes can be absolutely devastating. I mean, not just for your personal life, but for your professional life. So hopefully things will get back together. I know that you got your phone back and your internet. So you can now see the devastation for yourself because, I mean, you were cut off from the rest of the world there for a few days.
Francois McKinnon: Yeah. We are used to be able to connect automatically to any clients anywhere in the world and friends and family. And when it happens to you, you are going, shouldn’t I be more prepared for this? And what is the name of the satellite phone?
Oscar Santamaria: Well, yeah. Starlink, I think.
Francois McKinnon: Yeah. This has been, apparently Elon Musk is sending a bunch of these huge satellites and transceivers and receivers to North Carolina to help out people. Because you have to A, you do not have power to charge your device. And B, you cannot communicate with anyone. So nobody knows what your problem is. You cannot fix it. And the only thing, the good thing that we finally figured out is we had an emergency little radio system that I bought years ago. And it took us one day to locate it, but we did find it. And it was very helpful. They were radio DJs from Asheville, but their building was completely trashed. So they went to South Carolina and started doing the show in South Carolina and they could not see or hear anything. And the communication, you could not use a phone or cell phone. The day after the storm came, it was done. It was very frustrating to be without communication when you were used to communicate so well. And because of due to cell phones and the Wi Fi and iPads and everything else. So it was kind of hard to deal with, but it was a lesson learned. And I will tell you what, Christina and I are very happy and very lucky that this minimal thing happened to us compared to these people that are loving, caring people that we have met a lot of people since the storm hit. And these people are kind. And the fact is that the similarity is Hurricane Andrew in Miami was in 1992 was the worst. And I thought it was the worst, but when people are wet and they are full of mud and their house is in the middle of a street, I mean, houses moved and they were in the middle of a highway and street. Do you understand the psychological weight of that? It is crazy.
Oscar Santamaria: I know, I actually do. I witnessed it when I was trying to find the claimants back in 1992, and I went to Southwest Dade and there was nothing there. I mean, obviously, business was going to be affected because everybody was displaced. I am glad you are okay.
Francois McKinnon: And you told me you were shedding a tear at one point, but you were cutting onions.
Oscar Santamaria: I was cutting onions. And I am glad the week is over. And thank you for covering for me on that job in Fort Lauderdale. That worked out well. And we are going to take a break and we will be right back.
Francois McKinnon: So stay tuned. Thank you. During this little vacation from hell, and I was able to go over my book with Lily, the editor of my book, and that we are going to be done. I should have the last copy tomorrow, which is Friday, October 4th, I think. I think the book will be out and about ready to, it will be published by Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. So I am excited about that. And it has been a long journey during COVID and everything. That is when I decided to start doing this. And I am excited because it has been so long that I have worked on this project.
Oscar Santamaria: So what is this book about?
Francois McKinnon: It is a series of novels about, remember when you and I were in Massachusetts where the witches are sailing? And then I was confronted with a very hostile, almost like a Seinfeld type of thing. And she said, who are you? And I said, I am Peter Gray. And I am on the list. Remember that? You could hear it live from the car, right? So Peter Gray was always my back end story. I use that. And during the pandemic, COVID 2021, I had already written these stories about what I have done before, just in case I die. So I had something to write to my family and stuff because they really did not know exactly. So I started writing this and then I got really involved with a fantastic writer in Boston. She helped me out to develop my stories into a book format. And I will tell you what, Dee, I have always been a big reader and I always loved reading. I read at night before I go to sleep. And I will tell you what, it has been amazing.
Oscar Santamaria: Hey, Francois. So in preparation of the shows, I like to listen to podcasts and I go on some investigative forums and I just read what people are saying and the questions they are asking. And one of the ones that I saw that kind of struck a chord in me was people who bring their dogs with them while on surveillance. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Francois McKinnon: Well, I do not have a dog because my entire family is allergic to them. I am not. I had a dog when I grew up. But the bottom line is I carry a leash. I understand the connection with people and their animal. As a surveillance person, an investigator, if you are walking around with a leash in your hand and you say to people, you lost your dog with a photo, which you have to have as a backup, people will connect with you a lot more. But let me ask you something. You have dogs and you have a dog now, but you had a dog many years ago that you used to love. This thing was almost as big as you were. What was his name?
Oscar Santamaria: Gelati.
Francois McKinnon: Yeah. I missed it. What kind of dog was that again?
Oscar Santamaria: It was a Bull Mastiff.
Francois McKinnon: Love that. You are like six four. He was huge, this dog. And he would lick you everywhere. And the phone.
Oscar Santamaria: Oh, no, no, no. So let me ask you, would you bring him on surveillance with you?
Francois McKinnon: Oh, hell no.
Oscar Santamaria: Listen, I have had dogs throughout my career. I have never bought them with me on surveillance just for no other reason than if you have to go in somewhere, you are going to have to leave your dog inside the car. Obviously, you are going to need to leave the car on. And yeah, I have an issue with that because sometimes we literally leave the car and then we have to be gone for like 30 minutes or something or and I would have a problem with that.
Francois McKinnon: Yeah. And I would have to leave the car probably open because these days they have these key fobs that the car will not lock if the keys inside.
Oscar Santamaria: So and you cannot lock it while you have the keys outside. So essentially, you got to leave the car running with the doors unlocked. Now you got your car in there unlocked and you have your dog and you have the potential of maybe getting both stolen from you. I just do not want to bring a dog, especially here in Florida when it gets very, very hot. And I just I mean, Oscar to eat zero.
Francois McKinnon: I understand that. But there is a lot of people that their dogs are like their children. And if it was my child that that is all I had to do, that is what I would do. But yeah, I do not find it to be very tactical to bring a dog because first of all, I would be constantly thinking about my dog in the car in the heat, even if the windows are cracked. And we live in South Florida. So therefore they could come steal a car with the dog with the windows open. They go, OK, hey, nice puppy. How are you doing?
Oscar Santamaria: I think also a lot has to depend on the size of the dog and maybe the geographical location. There is some places that are cold all the time where you can get out of your car and leave the dog inside and it is not going to die of heat exhaustion or something. But there is other places where you just cannot do that. So that is something to factor in. But for me personally, I have never taken a dog with me on surveillance. I just haven’t. But again, I think that maybe the smaller the dog, the better you are able to get away with that if you really wanted to do it.
Francois McKinnon: People ask us about when claimants or surveillance subjects drive too fast. When do you cut it off?
Oscar Santamaria: Oh, well, I guess I cut it off when my car blows up. Apparently it happened.
Francois McKinnon: What about you?
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah, I see them as long as I feel like I can still maintain it safely. I will push it to maybe 90 miles an hour. But other than that, listen, there is a lot of things to consider. People’s safety. You also got to consider if you get pulled over, you are going to incur at least a 400 dollar traffic citation. And depending if you are working for a case or as a subcontractor, you might actually be owing money at the end.
Francois McKinnon: Yes, you might be in the negative at end of the day.
Oscar Santamaria: Listen, most people do drive within the parameters of the speed limit, maybe a little bit over, and that is fine. But on the occasion it does happen, I guess you just got to decide for yourself when it is enough.
Francois McKinnon: Yeah, I realized at one point I was following a motorcycle guy three, four years ago. And I realized because you are trying to do your job. I was going 110 and my car was going to blow up. And I said, wait a minute. Anything over 100 miles per hour, do you know I will slip? You are on bicycle tires at that point. And I said, I am not going to risk my life to this stupid job. I am going to call it quits right now. Last subject due to high speed, unbelievable high speed. We were in for a lot of debt. We ended up in Palm Beach in no time. Not going to happen. We are not going to lose our life over a monkey that is going too fast. And I will tell you what, they were going very fast. That happens all the time. That is a very good point because most people, they say, well. And that is going to be a wrap for this episode. Please join us next week for a new episode of the Miami PI Chronicles podcast. Thank you and have a good week. Thank you for listening to the Miami PI Chronicles podcast. For all of your investigative needs in Florida, please contact McKinnon Investigative Group at 954 513 7414. That is 954 513 7414. Or visit us at www.miginvestigations.com. Thanks again for listening and please remember to share, follow, and like.
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