Francois McKinnon: Welcome to the Miami PI Chronicles podcast. I am your host, Francois McKinnon from McKinnon Investigative Group.
Oscar Santamaria: And I am Oscar Santamaria of Optimum Investigations.
Francois McKinnon: We created this podcast with the goal to educate, inform, and entertain aspiring beginner and seasoned professionals in the investigative field. With over 60 years of combined experience, we offer invaluable insights and lessons learned. While we may not have all the answers, our knowledge can certainly benefit anyone interested in this dynamic profession. So sit back, listen, and enjoy these episodes. Please do not forget to like, share, and follow. Good evening, Oscar, and welcome to our episode 12 already.
Oscar Santamaria: Oh my goodness, it is flying. Yes, it is. How are you doing, Francois?
Francois McKinnon: I am doing good, man. I am doing good. I am starting to feel better about doing these podcasts. And the fact that we are getting a lot of replies and positives about the show, that people like the show, I feel pretty good about it. I have realized, like I told you, that it is turning out to be quite a bit of work, but it is kind of fun. What do you think?
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah, likewise. I think we are getting a little bit better at it. We started off pretty horribly, but as the weeks go by, hopefully that nobody has jumped off any ledges.
Francois McKinnon: You are pretty nice when you say it started off horribly. But anyways, you and I know each other for over 30 years. We were told by an audience member just to be ourselves. So that is what we are going to do. We listened to our listeners and they gave us some very good critiques, not too harsh. So we are pretty excited about that. All right, Oscar, I wanted to start with the emails because you told me you got a bunch of them. I did not get a chance. I just got it yesterday. So can you tell me a little bit about what has happened there? And also, we have a big event coming up in September. Tell us a little bit about it at the Ocean Matter Beach Resort.
Oscar Santamaria: Oh, yeah. So on Monday, September 16th, 2024, between the hours of 6 and 10, we are going to have a little listener meet and greet. We are going to be giving out some prizes at the door, just getting to meet the listeners. And you can ask whatever questions. Hopefully we can interview some of you and get some material for future podcasts. Yeah.
Francois McKinnon: And if you are PIs or executive protection specialists, please send us an email with your information at miamipichronicles at gmail.com and we will reach out to you and we will schedule, because right now we started an interview schedule that starts Sunday at 10 a.m. It is already booked till noon. And then we can probably fit a bunch of them early on, on Monday, the Monday of the year. Right?
Oscar Santamaria: Sounds good. Yes. So let us hear about these emails. See, the first question we have is what we think a decent percentage of getting claim in video is. That comes from somebody named Jose in Orlando. I would say that 70% is a very, very good mark. You know, listen, you are not going to get 10 out of 10 for various reasons. People may not do anything, just inactive. They may have moved. They may live in a condo and multiple egresses. I would say generally, if you can do seven out of 10, you are better than 90% of the people out there.
Francois McKinnon: I think that is fair. Yeah. Because it is not going to happen all the time. You are going to be sitting on a claimant’s house and they are not going to do anything or they might not even be there.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah. 70% is very good. If you can achieve 70%, I think you are doing a good job. I have seen people actually make a living with under 50%. But if you can be at 70%, you are going to be among the top tier of investigative surveillance. Okay.
Francois McKinnon: Well, thank you for that, Oscar. And what is the next question or email? Yeah.
Oscar Santamaria: Another one we have here is from Laz and Davey. He writes, what are the different methods that we use to get into gated communities? So I want to kind of tread a little bit lightly on this topic.
Francois McKinnon: Yes. You have to be very creative. That is part number one.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah. So, I mean, obviously there is different gated communities. I mean, some, the gate can just be a non man gate that just sweeps open and you can get in. In those instances, you just wait until it opens and you follow somebody in. But sometimes there is an arm and then a gate. And for those instances, you can try a variety of different things. Not saying that I do these, but I have really.
Francois McKinnon: Yeah. Of course you do not. I will not admit to anything.
Oscar Santamaria: You can obviously piggyback in. Sometimes if it is just an unmanned gate and you have to call somebody, you can just pick a random number. Oftentimes these people, they see that the gate is calling, they will just buzz you in and let you in. If it is a manned security, manned gate, there is different things you can do. Obviously you can say that you are a process server that might get you in. It is something you have to be creative and you have to plan before you just pull up without a plan.
Francois McKinnon: You have to have a couple of plans and a backup plan because it is a lot of investigators that they get there and then the story change or some places in Boca Raton, Florida, these gates are manned by professionals, highly professionals, then they know all the tricks. That is where I have utilized drones before to be able to give me an idea just by the height of the drone phone to give me an idea where the house was in the complex because a lot of them have these super high gates and you cannot see anything. And if you are by yourself, you could be sitting on the front gate, but what if there is two exits and entrances? You are kind of on your own and you cannot cover two at the same time. You need to find out a little bit of what is happening and you need to get into the development. Although some of these developments, as you know, they are pretty tight, the neighbors, if you park on a million dollar home nearby, they are going to call the security or the police. That is a very good question. Thank you Laz.
Oscar Santamaria: So also be aware if it is a rental community, you can always say that you want to just go to the leasing office and they will let you in that way. Just be aware of what type of community it is. Try to adapt. Sometimes there is multiple gates. Obviously, piggybacking in is one of the ways that we do.
Francois McKinnon: What I do, Oscar, is I will do an internet search of the property and the address and if it is a complex, a rental complex, they will tell me and I will get the phone number of the rental place and I can schedule, or even a place, homes for sale. You schedule an appointment just to get in there for a house nearby. You have to be creative and you have to plan properly. Sometimes you follow somebody to those locations, so you do not have really that luxury. These are just ways of maybe being able to get in instead of just sitting out on the exterior, especially if there is multiple avenues of departure. And like we have done before is also you can park your vehicle somewhere and have a leash in the trunk of your car and just walk. There is some areas that they have a gate, but you can just walk right in. So vehicles do not get in, but you can go on foot and then check out the situation if there is a park nearby. You can pledge yourself, camera in your pocket and hope for the best. But if they leave, then if you are on your own, and I am talking about a two man team.
Oscar Santamaria: Phil from Fort Myers writes, what should you say if somebody approaches your vehicle while you are on a surveillance? That is a good question. That happens often. That does happen often and here you got to be a little bit careful on what you say. Obviously there is numerous schools of thought. Some investigators will say, do not say that you are an investigator. Some will say, yeah, it is okay to say it. So this is what I would do. On the occasions that has happened, I either say that I am a process server and I am waiting to serve somebody that has been very difficult to serve. Or I just say, I am a private investigator and I followed somebody into the neighborhood. That way they are not concerned that we are looking at a neighbor of theirs. And most of the time I say it is a child custody case because when you say that, it will be okay. It softens them up a little bit. So never, I have seen investigators argue with these people. I am not going to tell you anything and get lost. Listen, that just escalates the situation. That is a sure way of getting the police call and drawing attention. Do not be an ass and just try to be polite. Obviously people are concerned about suspicious vehicles in their neighborhood and you have to be cognizant of that and just try to diffuse the situation. And in some of those tips that I just said might just actually get you out of it.
Francois McKinnon: So I totally agree. The one thing I used to do is when I really needed to stay there on surveillance, and people have to understand, when we get to a surveillance location, we call the police and give them an approximate time of how long we are going to stay there. I always tell them 12 hours because if I need to come back and stuff, I do not want to log in. So we call the police department. They will ask us if we are armed. They will ask us from what time to what time will we be there, right? That is for them to know that if somebody calls in our tag or says a suspicious vehicle is here, if they call the police, we will have it in a special log. And in your surveillance notes, you also write the name and the badge ID or the ID number of the person who we call to check in with the PD. And this way, it makes it a lot safer. So when people call, the police say, oh, we know they are there. So nothing to worry about. But I have also used when I really needed to stay there, okay, I could not get booted out of there. I have told them we are working on a case. It is kind of sensitive, but it could be a sexual predator that is in there. We do not know. We are not sure. We are keeping our eyes open. That way, they feel like you are keeping an eye. And while doing surveillance, we are keeping an eye because that is all we do. So if we see something criminal, we report it to the police immediately. So I think that was a very good question. Well, here is one I think you are going to love.
Oscar Santamaria: It comes from Charles in Delray. He goes, I really love Francois’s voice. He reminds me of a male Celine Dion. Could he please, please, please sing a few lines of My Heart Will Go On? He says he is not dying of anything, but if he were, he would make this his Mickewich. What is wrong with you?
Francois McKinnon: Here, you want to, well, she is French Canadian. I lived in Canada. So here, this is for the Canadians. Every night in my dreams, I see you. I feel you. This is how I know you go on. All right, that is all I remember. Wow. Do we really have to do these things? I will do anything. By the way, listeners, I am going to tell you something. I am game for anything you can ask Oscar. I have done it, and I have done some stuff I will never talk about. But once I set my mind to something, I do it. So if it is to entertain and sing more songs, probably not going to happen again. Who was this guy that asked for me to sing for him? That was Charles and Del Rey. There you go, Charles. I hope you are happy with that one. You know what? I think that he was spot on.
Oscar Santamaria: You are like the male Celine Dion. It is the accent, buddy. It is the accent.
Francois McKinnon: It is uncanny. I do not know why I still have an accent between your lines. I have lived there all my life. I know. Wait a second. Weren’t you born in Detroit? Yeah. I was born at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit, downtown Detroit. My dad was a cardiologist there, and I guess he went to lunch and hooked up with mom. So I was born there, and I am very happy to be born there. And I lived in Canada as well. I had both adults citizenship, and it is actually a positive thing, I think, in life. But yeah, so thank you, Charles, to make me do that. And do you have anything else on that?
Oscar Santamaria: Oh, yeah. We have a few more questions. Let us see. How do you know if you are burned during mobile surveillance?
Francois McKinnon: Hold on. You are going to know. But some of the signs you can… I love the way you say, you are going to know, because they started behaving erratically.
Oscar Santamaria: Yeah. They are driving as erratic. They started going in directions that do not make sense, turning into locations. So if they do that more than a couple of times, just assume, stay back, and maybe allay their fears, and if not, just break off. Do not follow them into dead end areas. That is going to be a dead giveaway. Once they start driving a little bit erratically, that is probably the best time, and pull back a little bit. Well, some people are surveillance conscious, right? And if they know anything, I will give out a tip right there. If you think you are being followed, first thing is make three immediate rights. You will make a right into a street. The first right that you have, you make a right, and then make a right again. If that vehicle is still behind you, it is highly possible they are following you. So after that, get yourself out of that area and drive yourself to the closest police department or fire department. Just pull up in your car and tell them somebody is following you. That way, you will be safe, and they will take over the situation to make sure that you are not being followed there if you want. It has happened a lot on marital cases and divorce cases that there is a stalking element, part of it, and driving to the police department or firehouse is always the best thing you can do. So yeah, that is a good tip.
Francois McKinnon: No, that is a very good tip. Safety first. Absolutely. And we want our listeners to know that we are going to share every safety tip that we think is helpful for you out there and while living your life that we can help you out. What else, Oscar? What else do you have?
Oscar Santamaria: This is coming from Nick in Boynton Beach. What do you do if you lose someone while on surveillance? I will let you answer that.
Francois McKinnon: I do not lose anybody, so go ahead. For those of us that do lose people every once in a while, obviously, you want to just canvass the area. Oftentimes, people will go to grocery stores. If they are dressed like they are going to a gym or something, when you see them leaving the house, check different fitness centers, malls. If it is at a certain time in the morning, maybe go to like Starbucks or to a Dunkin’ Donuts. And just by canvassing, 50% of the time, you are going to relocate them, in my experience. You need to know where to look. Obviously, it has been worked before and they go to certain locations. Yeah, go back to the firehouse. Yeah, read the report and see what is on the way from the point where you lost them to that point, and just review their steps past surveillances. And most of the times, you are going to be able to find them. So that is what I would suggest you do. Great advice. So we are going to take a break and we will be right back with a great story that somebody emailed us and asked us if we have ever followed anybody on planes. Yes, on trains. And a great story came to mind. And I have done this probably five times on the train, but this is a pretty good story. I was thinking of keeping that story to put in my book. So we will be right back after this.
Francois McKinnon: And we are back. So Francois, before we went on break, you mentioned a story you had about a plane or a train or an automobile or something of that nature. It was almost all of them. But in this case, it did not involve airplanes because as you will hear in the story, I get a call from one of my top lawyers in Miami and he tells me, listen, I know it is last minute, but I need you to do a surveillance. It might be two, three, four days tomorrow morning. And it was around midnight when he called me. So I go, okay, I will get it done and I will get ready and all this. He does not give me a lot of details. I get her date of birth, her social, and her name. Last known address. So I do that. I do my background check, hold the dossier on her. I get some information, but limited. Anyways, I set up surveillance at eight o’clock in the morning. A few hours later, an Uber pulls up, a black Uber pulls up and it had the Uber sign. It picks her up by Lauderdale by the sea. So everybody knows, if you do not know, it is in South Florida, the Fort Lauderdale area. So he picks her up. I am thinking, I see her with two pieces of luggage. I am thinking, she is going to the airport. What the hell am I going to do? I am not following them. The driver loads up the two pieces of luggage. They take off. I followed them from Lauderdale by the sea to I 95, southbound, and we end up at Hollywood Boulevard. I am going, they passed the airport. And I am not thinking about it at this point. I am going, okay, maybe she is going to a friend’s or something. And he did not get the client. As you know, unfortunately, they do not always give you the best information. So I said, okay, we get to Hollywood Boulevard and they turn into the Amtrak train station. I know that one very well, being born and raised in Hollywood. Okay, great. I pulled up. I set up surveillance. I start filming and I see her take her two suitcases. The guy helps her out to the ramp. Instead of going inside, she has a piece of paper in her hand. This is like 10 years ago. So she takes the paper out. She is looking at it. I know this train, it is going to go up north, but it can go up north till all the way to Canada, which I have done before with my wife. So I know a little bit, I have an idea of what is going on, but I need to know where she is going because I need to get a ticket. I hear somebody as I am walking, one of the gentlemen that take care of the luggage, concierge, whatever.
Oscar Santamaria: The luggage guy?
Francois McKinnon: Yeah, the luggage guy, exactly. And I ask him, no, they are talking and I hear, oh, the train is going to be late 20 minutes. With 20 minute delay is a big thing. I go right up to her and I look at my watch and I said, I hope they are not going to be delayed anymore. And she looks at me and she says, why is the train delayed? I said, yeah, it is delayed by an hour. Whatever I told her, I do not remember, but I made sure she knew. And I said, right out of my mouth, I said, where are you going? She said, DC. Oh, I said, me too. I am going to DC as well. Said, oh, great. We will see each other on the train. I make my phone ring, my cell phone ring, and then I walk towards the inside and I purchase a train ticket to DC because I did not know, but that was my pretext. And then I waited until I went in the back of the train station and I called the client and I said, oh, listen, she is taking the train to DC. What do you want me to do? He said, go with her. This is actually good news. This is what we are hoping for. So I am in the back of the train. I sent a text to Cindy, a girl that I know that worked for me for years. And I said, listen, you are in Jacksonville. I need you to get on board of that train. So the train takes off and then I am hoping that Cindy is going to be able to make the train. While I am on the train, she texts me, I will be on the train. So then I wait about two hours. The train is out of midway through Florida. And then I go to the bar cart restaurant and I go to the bar cart restaurant and she is there. So I see her. She says, hey, why do you not sit down and have a drink with me? I order a beer. She goes to cheers and I literally dump the beer all over myself. So now she has a cabin. I do not. She has a shower. She says, I am sorry, it is my fault. She is laughing at this point. So she says, why do you not come go to my cabin, get your stuff and change it? Which was nice. I go in there. She leaves. She shows me and gives me a clean towel. I turn on the shower, take off my clothes. I went to get my gear back. I changed myself and she had her iPad by the window. You know, there is like a bed and a thing. The iPad is there. The iPad is keep going. So I go and I hit it. And it is her hotel reservation in D.C. at the Hilton. So we will talk about our Hilton office later on in the show. But I get exactly that. And it lights up again. I take my phone. I take a picture. Now I know the day she is staying, where she is staying. It is one heck of a lead when you have nothing, right? So after that, I change and everything. I see her again and she seems tipsy and stuff. And I know I have time. I know Cindy is going to come on board. So I had emailed her the background check, the dossier on her. And she replies to me, you know, she was born on the same day as me. And she writes, let me run with that. She gets on the freaking train in Jacksonville. And at this point, I am finally clean. By the way, I never took a shower. I just let the shower run and I changed. So I am not that clean. But I am thinking, as soon as Cindy is on the train, she walks by. We have eye contact. She texts me, I saw her. She is in the bar cart. I said, go do your thing. She literally went to the bar cart and hung out with her until they closed. They bought drinks for later. They literally drank. And at 2 a.m., 3 a.m., I received a text saying, I know exactly what she is doing. She is going to be going to this company. And the girl was crying on Cindy’s shoulder because they were born on the same day. I do not even know how she knows her name. But she had gained so much confidence that the lady said, this huge tech company fired me for no reason. So now I am going over there. And I was hired. I already have a job with another company. They are a competition that buy her intelligence, which is what our clients wanted. So it turned out to be crazy. When she told me the information, the target went to sleep. And then she came by with me and brought me a little thing of wine. And we sat down and we talked. And she had all the information of her entire estate. Because Cindy, I had told her once I found out she was staying at the Hilton in D.C., the downtown Hilton. She said, oh, my God, I am staying there, too. So she texted me this while she is talking to her. I book a reservation under her name or her backstory name. And it worked out. They hung out for two days. She found out everything about her. And I got to D.C. and I let her go because she is very good at what she does. I got to the train station and I took a taxi, I think, to the airport. And I booked. I went back home. And Cindy had everything in her report, every detail.
Oscar Santamaria: Wow, that is a pretty remarkable story there.
Francois McKinnon: Yeah, but I will tell you what, this girl is an intelligent operative. And she knew what she was doing. I thought it was great. I was going to put that in one of my books. But here you go, listeners. We give you the real story. Well, this wraps up another episode. And ear out for the announcements for our little shindig over there at the Ocean Beach Resort Manor. And also, well, it is the Ocean Manor Beach Resort in Fort Lauderdale. But also, we are going to be posting on the podcast more information as more things are going to be available. And it is going to be a great time. And we want you guys to come out. And we are talking about to our PIs, our lawyer friends, and our listeners. Come out and stay there all night and hang out with us. So we are looking forward to it. We will definitely send you some stuff this week coming up. And to give you information about our little shindig, like Oscar, of course. So thank you for listening. And we will see you next week.
Oscar Santamaria: See you next week.
Francois McKinnon: Thank you for listening to the Miami PI Chronicles podcast. For all of your investigative needs in Florida, please contact McKinnon Investigative Group at 954 513 7414. That is 954 513 7414. Or visit us at www.miginvestigations.com. Thanks again for listening. And please remember to share, follow, and like.
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